HUMAN RAIN DELAY

The Mets just finished a nearly 2-and-a-half hour real rain delay, and the starter, Steve Trachsel, the human rain delay, has come out to pitch after that long time off. So this game's not going to be over for a while. But the Mets are up 4-0, so I'm glad it didn't get postponed. With apologies to the Southern Bureau, whose article I said I would post on Thursday, I am now going to post that article FOR Thursday. (Just to tie up loose ends - St. Lucie won, 4-1, and Edgardo Alfonzo was 1-for-4 for the Tides.) Here's the Southern Bureau's comparison of the 1986 Mets and the 2004 Red Sox, with my thought at the end.


Johnny Mets…

I was watching a show on ESPN about the greatest baseball teams of all time. As a Red Sox fan – I was shocked and disappointed that the 1986 Mets were ranked as a better team than the 2004 Red Sox.

So I thought…what would Johnny Mets do?? So…being the stat dork….I broke it down…just to earn my keep at the Southern Bureau Chief.

C – Gary Carter vs Jason Varitek: Varitek is obviously the Red Sox leader and captain, but Carter put up some pretty impressive numbers by 1986 standards. I think what Varitek brings in the clubhouse makes it closer – but I’ll go with Carter. (1-0 Mets)

1B – Keith Hernandez vs Kevin Millar/David Ortiz: A tale of two ballparks. In Fenway Park, the edge obviously goes to the Mets because Millar is/was terrible. But when they play in Shea, the edge has to go to the Red Sox (since Ortiz can't DH). Ortiz might not be a good fielder, but is there anyone else you’d rather have at the plate?? Ever?? We’ll call this position a tie. (1.5-.5 Mets)

2B – Wally Backman vs Mark Bellhorn: Backman hit 320 in 1986. That’s enough for me. (2.5-.5 Mets)

3B – Ray Knight vs Bill Mueller: I was surprised how good Knight’s stats were. Mueller had a great 2003, but struggled at the plate in 2004. Since that is the year we’re comparing – the edge to Knight. Mueller had a rough regular season. (3.5-.5 Mets)

SS – Rafael Santana vs Orlando Cabrera: Before looking at the stats, I had this pegged as a “they both aren’t very good” draw. But shockingly - Santana was even worse than I ever would have guessed.. He hit 218 for the season in 1986 – just 100 total bases. I was shocked to see he played in 139 games with those numbers. Orlando wasn’t THAT bad. (3.5-1.5 Mets)

LF – Mookie vs Manny: Just first names necessary here, and while Mookie may have had the most famous at-bat, Manny takes this one by a mile. (3.5-2.5 Mets)

CF – Lenny Dykstra vs Johnny Damon: The two leadoff hitters match up. Dyskstra hit 295 with 31 stolen bases, and 77 runs. Damon hit 304 with 19 stolen bases and 123 runs. Just 45 RBI for Dykstra…94 for Damon. This one is tough to call – but I’m going with Damon. (3.5-3.5)

RF – Darryl Strawberry vs Trot Nixon: I love Trot, but this one is about as close as Manny vs Mookie. Now Manny vs Darryl…that might get interesting. (4.5-3.5 Mets)

DH – Danny Heep vs David Ortiz: Heep started in games 3 and 4 (when the Sox pitched rightys). Kevin Mitchell started game 5 when the Sox pitched a lefty. In 2004 - the Red Sox had no lefty starters - so Heep's the guy. Not that it matters. (4.5-4.5)

Relief Pitching – Speaking from personal experience, I never felt safe with any lead as a Red Sox fan. Keith Foulke was lights out and Timlin and Embree were good enough. But that was it. Bronson Arroyo stunk in the playoffs. So I wanted the starters in as long as possible. Looking at the Mets reliever’s ERA, I’m guessing that wasn’t the case. So – on a guess – I’ll take the Mets. (5.5-4.5 Mets)

Bench – I think one reason the Red Sox won it all in 2004 was their depth. Dave Roberts, Gabe Kapler, Kevin Youkilis, Doug Mirabelli – defense with Pokey Reece and Doug Meintkiewicz. They were loaded with the exact type of bench guys you would want. I found ONE Mets bench player who hit over 250 in 1986. (5.5-5.5)

So we’re tied going to the one category I was stuck on – Starting Pitching. Its very hard to compare pitchers from different eras – especially with the increase in offense. What does Gooden’s 2.84 ERA equal in 2004?? Is it better than Pedro’s 3.90?? Sid Fernandez had nice numbers, but how much better is he really than Derek Lowe….or is he better at all?? Do the Mets have a number two starter like Curt Schilling??

This is where I got stumped. So in my mind…it’s a draw. It was much closer than I was expecting…the 86 Mets turned out to be a pretty good team.

Maybe this will spark some debate. Enjoy…and I look forward to the Johnnymets response…

-- southern bureau chief
end of article

Nice job, Southern Bureau. I'm kind of surprised the 2004 Red Sox come up in arguments of best team ever....I missed that ESPN special, I guess, but they weren't that great of a team, were they? Seems to me they were a very good team that went on a very timely post-season run. The 1986 Mets were a legitimately great team, that should have translated into the 1987 and 1988 Mets being great teams, but didn't. So they're a stand-alone great year. But I guess that's an argument for another time.

I don't know that I would do much differently than your analysis...maybe first base. I think Ortiz would make first base a Red Sox edge if we're talking head-to-head, because he'd be playing first base at Shea over Millar. And he'd give them the edge at DH, no doubt. But if we're talking strictly the first base position, then the edge would go to the Mets, because Hernandez was far better than Millar. I know you were getting at that, but the fact that you gave that position a tie, I think, needed a little more explanation....also, like I said, it would be different if we're talking comparing seasons or a head-to-head series (say, I don't know....in Triple Play 1999 or something).

Now for the pitching. Let's look:
#1: Dwight Gooden vs. Pedro Martinez
#2: Ron Darling vs. Curt Schilling
#3: Bobby Ojeda vs. Derek Lowe
#4: Sid Fernandez vs. Tim Wakefield
#5: Rick Aguilera vs. Bronson Arroyo

Again, if you're talking a head-to-head series, Pedro and Schilling alone as a 1-2 punch get more of an edge. But if we're comparing seasons, I think we have to give the edge to the Mets staff more than the Sox. You're right, we're talking different eras (and we can't overlook the 2004 AL versus the 1986 NL), but I think season-wise, I'd take the Mets' staff.

Dwight Gooden (although he'd probably get rocked in a series vs. these Sox) had a better '86 than Pedro had an '04. Maybe Pedro in '99 could rival it...but not '04. Edge: Mets

I'd still probably give '04 Schilling the edge over '86 Darling. Edge: Sox

Ojeda had a far better '86 than Lowe's '04, so Edge: Mets.

Wakefield's '04 was average, at best. El Sid is better than a draw here. Edge: Mets

And Aguilera and Arroyo are actually pretty comparable in the five slot. I'd go draw here.

So when you're comparing regular seasons, the edge is in the Mets' favor. If you're talking post-seasons, I think the Red Sox might get the edge. Maybe that's part of what had you stuck. I think better parameters need to be set for this argument. Or maybe we just need to settle this like men - on PlayStation.